jesidres: allow me to explain through interpretive Dance (Default)
[personal profile] jesidres posting in [community profile] fakenews_srsbsns
So, the rally's over- what are people's thoughts?

I have to say, after all is said and done... I'm disappointed. Whatever message there was supposed to be, the point seemed to be, quite frankly, "both sides are bad, everybody is blowing everything out of proportion, so be more apathetic". Calling out Rush Limbaugh a racist for singing "Barack the Magic Negro" is as bad as calling President Obama socialist marxist. And I can't say I agree with that.

There were good points to the Rally, but... with that end push of false equivalency and "both sides are bad", I got left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Yes, lets tone down the rhetoric, lets try and work together, but... don't tell me I have to "sit down and shut up" when someone is bigoted or racist.

Now I know there are some who would argue that's not what Jon or Stephen were going for, but I then have to ask- if that was the case, do you really think both sides are equally bad, as they were portrayed?

EDIT: Here's a transcript of Jon's ending speech. It doesn't contain the 'debate', however:

"The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity." -George Bernard Shaw

(no subject)

Date: 2010-10-31 02:12 am (UTC)
ceilidh_ann: Made by nutellahostage of LJ. (Anderson Cooper)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh_ann
I was going to do something like this myself but you got here first and did it better. I will say this though:

I freaking hate that Jon Stewart constantly pulls the false equivalency card. It's one thing to call out problems from both sides, I welcome it, but it's something totally different to make an unjustified equivalency between left and right. I know Keith's an egotistical maniac, and so does he, I have problems with some stuff he says but he in no way deserves to be equated with Glenn fucking Beck. I'm not going to let these unfair comparisons be made in some cheap attempt to sound like the only right way to do things is by pretending you're neutral (Stewart's cheap cop out of pulling the 'Oh I'm just a comedian' card whenever things get serious really ticks me off.) If you honestly think both sides are oh so horrible then we're screwed. Passion does not equal a lack of sanity or radicalism.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-10-31 08:00 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] hutchy
I have to agree with the comment above. I didn't get to see the rally, but I'm generally not big into anything Stewart or Colbert are involved with, because as soon as something gets serious, one of them pulls the I'm Just A Comedian card instead of actually dealing with the issue. That always irritated me.

Despite this, I'm actually surprised that the focus of the rally was apparently that both sides are bad; I was under the impression that the point of the rally was to combat the more ridiculous/frightening viewpoints that are cropping up on the right, and combating the Tea Party. At least, that's what I'd expect from someone who is supposedly progressive. But telling voters to shut up about important issues, and encouraging them to be more apathetic... no, Jon, that's not very progressive at all. IMO, apathy is the absolute last thing we need this election season.

Now I'm afraid that people who were super into the rally are going to be running around going "Both sides are bad so I'm not voting at all!" which just. No. And comparing racist insults to calling someone a socialist? ALSO NO. That is just infuriating.

Ugh. Apologies if this is at all incoherent; I haven't had my morning coffee yet...

Disjointed thoughts:

Date: 2010-10-31 01:42 pm (UTC)
espreite: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espreite
My opinion on the srs side of the rally is sort of mixed. My overwhelming feeling is that the message got muddled and lost - by the time Stewart finished his speech, I was like, "What exactly is the point again?" I should probably go rewatch it, but that was my initial impression. I don't think the main point was "both sides are bad;" I think it was more along the lines of "The 24 news network has made everyone overly jumpy about everything" (which has its good points and its own issues, since I would consider TDS PART of that news system), but then he started extrapolating that to specific left/right cases. There was one line, the one about not calling out racist things so we can save our efforts for the "real racists," that was really, really horrendously atrocious, but I didn't see that as the main point of the speech. Not that it makes it any better.

I second the agreement with ceilidh_ann in general. I think it would have been far more productive to actually sit down and talk honestly about the fact that while there are out-of-proportion reactions on both sides, at the moment the right is way more ridiculous. It did seem to me, though, that Jon Stewart might, maaaaaaaybe, be moving away from his "I'm a comedian lalalalalala" thing and accepting responsibility for some of what he does. Maybe. We'll see.

I dunno. There was some good stuff in the speech, there was some icky stuff in there. It was a mixed bag, and I'm not totally sure what they were going for with it.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-10-31 07:58 pm (UTC)
willwrite_fortea: (this is a test)
From: [personal profile] willwrite_fortea
There was one part in the ending speech where I heard and understood one thing & perhaps missed the actual point so I ask for help

When Jon makes the remarks about the American public through unflattering funhouse mirrors and he continues on to describe Marxists as actively subverting the Constitution, was he talking about Marxists as they're portrayed through these mirrors/the lens of the MSM or as he sees them through his viewing lens?

I am apparently unable to follow arguments in speeches :P

(also this is why I'm more a Stephen fan than one of Jon)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:01 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
I figured he was talking about "Marxists" as portrayed in the media and by the right. He was a self-described Eugene V. Debs fanboy in his younger days, so it's not like he wouldn't get that socialists don't Hate America. But I think in the eyes of the right, those are the strongest possible dismissals they can think of. (Well, except the ubiquitous "just like Hitler.")

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:20 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
Your analogy is a bit lopsided. I haven't heard of any candidates who have said they "identify as Marxist", but then I haven't heard any "identify as homophobic" or "identify as racist", either.

That said, I'm not in favor of people throwing the word around to describe everyone on the left that they dislike. My point was that it happens, not that I support it.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:49 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
Please tell me the candidates that are running on the platforms that one could identify as Marxist.

I never said there were any.

Look, all I did here was observe that a pattern of thought exists. I didn't say I agreed with it, and now you seem to be trying to talk me out of it when I was never in it to begin with.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:31 am (UTC)
ceilidh_ann: Made by erin-icons of LJ. (QI Stephen Fry)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh_ann
It doesn't matter how they 'identify' because their views speak for themselves. Look at people like O'Donnell, Joe Miller, etc. They're not shy about their bigotry because it got them votes and attention.

Stewart needs to stop tarring everyone with the same brush. He's got a preconceived narrative that he's working with - the left are just as crazy as the right - which just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. He uses examples of Keith and Ed Schultz being just like Beck and O'Reilly but doesn't mention Maddow (not an angry white guy so it doesn't apply apparently.) Then there's his constant mentioning of O'Reilly being the sensible one on Fox which is just bullshit. Yeah, the media is at fault for a lot of things but to just toss them all aside with a casual 'they're just the same' whilst misrepresenting the true nature of what's going on is simply unfair, especially when coming from someone who is as influential politically as Stewart, despite him trying to play it down.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:55 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
Of course it doesn't matter how they "identify." Nor would it if there were people whose views were Marxist, whether they "identified as Marxist" or not.

I'm not sure what you wanted them to do with Maddow. You imply that she didn't appear in the angry-media-people lineup because she's a woman, but you also say (and I agree, by the way) that she's reasonable, which means she didn't belong in the angry-media-people lineup in the first place.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 01:40 am (UTC)
yank_abroad: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yank_abroad
Okay, so shift the comparison slightly. There are a whole lot of candidates openly saying that homosexuality can be cured, or that gays should not be allowed to marry or serve in the military, or stoking fears about blacks/Mexicans/Muslims, etc. I can't think of any candidates on the left who are running on Marxist platforms with the aim of undermining the Constitution. Can you?

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 02:19 am (UTC)
yank_abroad: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yank_abroad
Right. So Jon Stewart's comparison about the media is misleading and a false equivalency. It implies that people who are angry about the racism in the Tea Party or homophobic Republican candidates are just as silly and delusional as people who think Obama is a Marxist. Plus he's part of the media himself and setting himself up as "above the whole thing", which is a touch disingenuous.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-11-01 08:45 am (UTC)
dhobikikutti: earthen diya (Default)
From: [personal profile] dhobikikutti
Good post. This is one of the many reasons why I soured so thoroughly on the shows and fandom.


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